Storytelling and Composition

Pull up a photographer’s YouTube video on composition or read one of a myriad of composition articles and you will be told that a good photograph tells a story. They each give you advice on how to compose your image to tell that story. What is the story you’re trying to tell? Tell the story. Tell your story. Tell a story.

They are not wrong.

But I want to flip this narrative a bit. How about we look at this from another direction. Not from looking at story through photography but looking at photographic composition through story design.

We’re going to be talking theory here to help you frame this concept better. If you want to understand mechanics better, I’ve written a 3-part series on some of the more helpful “rules.” (part 1, part 2, part 3) You might even want to check out part 4 about listening to the scene and telling its story.

You might also want to grab a cup of coffee.

For a brief review, what is composition? It is the structure within your photograph that helps tell a story. It is the order we align the elements in our image to help the viewer comfortably work their way through the image. In writing, we put our stories into structures to create a picture. Our story structures can be immense such as a novel, condensed as in short stories, or concise as in flash fiction.

Let’s look at these more closely and how these structures relate to photography.

The Novel and The Grand Landscape

A novel is a story that is long and complex. Often with several characters and subplots within the main structure of the story. Within the pages of the novel, the characters are developed and have story arcs, we get to know them as friends - celebrate when their lives are going well and cry when they die. The plot and subplots move the reader forward through to the end – we read into the dark hours of morning unable to put the book away, needing to know what happens on the next page. A well-written novel will have layers of meaning that ensnare the reader who days later will be examining the world through the view of the author no matter how distorted or perfect that view is. We yearn for the characters to come to life so we can spend more time with them.

How does this relate to a photograph? Think of your grand landscapes – those landscapes where you are standing at a vista and looking at the world as it unfolds before you. You’re at the edge of a canyon, layers of earth worn away by the river shimmering in the depths of shadow. Or maybe your view is from a cliff overlooking the ocean, waves upon waves undulating to the horizon. Or you come through a thick forest to a precipice and you see before you repeating layers of mountain ridges and peaks leading off to a massive volcano in the distance. What initially draws your eye becomes the main character which then becomes the focal point of your image. The other elements of the image become subplots and minor characters to move the reader through the main plot. Each a layer that enraptures your viewer leads them through the image to become as enthralled with the view as you were. They find it difficult to tear themselves away.

In the photo above, I stood on the side of the road through an area of Eastern Washington on hills high above the Snake River. I could see the hills on the other side of the north end of Hell’s Canyon. This is farming country. This is lonely country. Every time I drive this stretch of road, this barn whispers to me. On this early summer day, it yelled with joy. The barn is clearly the subject of the image – the protagonist of the story. The sky, the sun beams, the hills, the wheat field, the lines of trees in the distance, the hues of light and dark in the clouds, the splashes of sunlight on the hillside. All of these are added elements to help tell the grand tale of this lonely barn on this stormy day. Cropping out these elements and only featuring the barn wouldn’t help tell the story that needed to be told.

The Short Story and The Intimate Landscape

A short story is a fully developed story similar to a novel but much shorter, as the name implies. You will likely only find one primary character and few other characters. The characters, since they don’t have the benefit of many pages for development, become well-known acquaintances – someone you’d meet for coffee a couple of times a year to catch up. Generally, you will read only one plot as the limit on exposition restricts what the author will be able to explore. They are examining the main character in a short timeframe in a limited setting. The subplots, if there are any, cannot distract from the main plot of the story and confuse the reader. In a short story we examine a character and setting that is far more intimate than the novel. At the end of a well-written short story, the reader will feel as satisfied with the outcome as they will feel after a well-cooked meal. We might like to continue reading, but again while the characters and their stories are known to us, they’re not great friends who we end up missing when they are gone.

As we look at the intimate landscape, we can easily see the similarities. We are examining the world through a more intimate view. Like the short story will have a character that we come to know with a developed plot or storyline. We might see an expansive oak in the forest and create our composition with the oak as the main character. All other trees in the forest would be the storyline, the other characters helping to tell the story of the oak. Or does that oak preside over a lonely landscape where the negative space of sky and meadow help tell of its isolation? We won’t be seeing the expanse of the grand view, but the details of a scene that becomes more personal – almost as if we were a part of the scene itself. It is a self-contained image that tells the story of our subject, without extraneous details.

The little cabin above (can we call it a cabin and not a shack?) is a perfect example of the short story as an intimate landscape. We see our main character in a struggle against the elements as rain pummels the decaying wood. We know that this little cabin has already seen hard times with planks missing and its leaning stature. We know all we really need to know of its environment and the toll it has taken on the cabin. We know it has a history, even if the details of that history are not examined. We grow to like this little cabin. We wish it well and hope to see it again one day . . . maybe.

Flash Fiction and The Vignette of Nature

If you have never read Flash Fiction (where have you been?) then know that it is an extremely short story of less than 2000 words. Because is it so short, the author must grab you quickly to immerse you into the world they’ve created in short order. And that’s a pretty good definition – authors of flash fiction are the gourmet short order cooks of writing. They sit you down at the table, serve you a tale that is often a snippet in the life of their character then whisk away the plates. As a reader you are often left with wanting more but realizing that you really don’t need more, you are sated. Just like any story there is a character or more involved in a plot line. But the amount of information we are given is all that we really need.

When we move to comparing this to landscape photography, we see it as the natural vignette – a small portion of the landscape that tells an interesting story. Maybe it’s a group of woodland wildflowers twisted together in a fight for sunlight. A grouping of seashells on a beach tells us all we need to know about those seashells at that point in time. I’m mixing metaphors here but think of it at a scene in shorthand. Just enough to tell the story without writing it out in cursive. Think details. As photographers, we find those details that tell a wonderful story of the landscape as a whole. Our viewer may want to see more but leaves sated.

When we look for story-telling details, we see images as the example here. As viewers, we understand that there is more beyond the frame of the image, but that doesn’t matter. The captivating story is within this section of old wood on the side of the building where someone added a decorative touch of rustic Americana in the form of hub caps and wheel rims to the wall. We get one glimpse of the world beyond in the reflective wheel cover on the right. You have time to appreciate the scene. You may wonder about the person who hung the hub caps yet understand that really this is all you will get and all you really need. The image and story within it are concise.

So, how do you use these ideas in composition?

When you arrive at a location, look for each type of storytelling. Look for the novel or grand landscape allowing your viewer to experience a world of characters, and plot points all culminating in one climatic ending. Find the short stories or intimate landscape to give your viewer a personal view of the area, one where they get to know one character well and follow them through to a conclusion. Then finally search out those compelling details for some flash fiction or natural vignette. Combine all three of these at a location and you will come away with a strong body of work that will sustain your story and the story of place.

Telling the Story in Composition

Composition is a wondrous thing, filled with rules, guidelines and mystery. A good composition can make the boring scene exciting. On the flip side, a bad composition can destroy a beautiful scene. Composition can draw the viewer into your story but can also send them running in the other direction. We can talk for hours, and I have, on the rules of composition. (You can check out part 1, part 2, and part 3 of composition on my blog.)  We can analyze the interactions of leading lines and the Rule of Thirds. We can measure distances of the Golden Mean. We can judge an image on the photographer’s use of foreground, middle ground, and background. We can weigh the virtues of symmetry, balance, and minimalism. These are all concepts that a photographer needs to know, understand, implement, and toss aside when needed. Yet, if you follow these rules and guidelines, you could still produce an image that is lifeless and will remain on your computer and never get elevated to your wall, where good photos are meant to be.

Let’s chat a bit about going beyond the basics of composition. When you arrive on scene with beauty surrounding you and all these composition concepts in your head, do you freeze? Do you find it difficult to find a compelling composition? Do you just start pointing our camera in whatever direction and hope something will stick? Do you understand the guidelines of composition but have difficulty recording them on your sensor? Do you ever review your images after a trip and wonder what happened to the grandeur you experienced?

If you have answered Yes to any of these questions, allow me to help. As Erin Babnik explains, as landscape photographers it’s our job to organize nature. Composition guidelines help us to organize nature in an even more eye-pleasing quality that our brains can understand and latch onto. Look at the image above – the actual scene is one of chaos as forests in the Pacific Northwest are and the viewpoint is a bit disconcerting. Yet with the leading line of the waterfall through the mossy rocks, your brain knows what it is supposed to look at and finds peace in that implicit knowledge. That’s what composition is meant to do.

As you arrive on the scene, ask yourself these questions:

What attracts me to this scene? What do you like about the scene? What made you stop your walk or the car and take a longer look? Is it how the light plays across the scene? Do you find a pattern that is appealing? Analyze why – even before taking out the camera. I will often stand on a viewpoint and soak in the landscape before me without raising the camera to my eye. I am looking for those elements of the scene that attract me – and there is no right or wrong answer. Take 10 photographers to the same location and they will create 10 different images. Your vision is your own and if you like that rock, then include that in your photo or make it the subject. It’s answering the question “what about that rock do you like?” And you photograph should answer that question because you are now telling the story of that rock.

I was reminded of this basic concept of composition in a book about writing, because creativity is creativity no matter the medium. In her book “Bird by Bird”, Anne Lamont describes a scene from Mel Brooks’ movie “The 2,000-Year-Old Man” (a movie I have yet to see, but now thinking it needs to go on my list) where a psychiatrist gives advice to his patient about letting the broccoli tell him how to eat it. Sounds weird, right? But not. The subject, the scene you want to photograph has a way of talking to you; telling you how best to photograph it at that time with those conditions. What made you stop and look at the scene in the first place is a whisper. Each photographer will hear a different whisper and will photograph to tell a different story. No not a different story, just a different version of the same story, to contribute to a greater understanding of the subject.

Not every photographer will be compelled to tell the same story and that is what makes photography such a rich and creative endeavor. British landscape photographer and YouTuber, Thomas Heaton describes this concept further in his video about photographing one of the most iconic landscapes of the Southwest United States – Mesa Arch. Photographers were lined up to photograph the arch as the sun rose which makes the underside of the arch glow. However, because of the overcast sky on that day, the scene required a different telling. Thomas and a few of his fellow photographers followed the whispers and found scenes that created beautiful images of the same landscape. They were able to add to the story that is Mesa Arch by not photographing the arch itself but the landscape around the arch.

Now this is where the going gets tough – set up your camera and start removing everything in the frame that doesn’t help tell your story. A common thread to photography is that while painters start with a blank canvas; the writer begins with a blank page - our canvas, our page comes pre-filled with extraneous bits and pieces and it is up to us edit out elements to create a compelling image – an image that narrates the story of this place. It’s tough. I know when I get to a beautiful alpine meadow and flowers paint the landscape in a rainbow of hues, I want to photograph all the pretties. I want to include EVERYTHING. And I bet you also have that same impulse. You get to the viewpoint and want to get it all in the frame of your camera, but then seem unsatisfied that you couldn’t record the grandeur of the view.

Have you ever uttered this statement? “The camera didn’t do the view justice.” That’s because you’re not being choosey about what to include and what to exclude. Going back to writing, there’s a saying in editing that you have to kill the darlings. You might have a phrase, a sentence, or even a character that you love – that makes you feel good about yourself and your abilities. But sadly, this element doesn’t work in the grand scheme of the story. It’s one of the hardest things for a writer to remove that piece. It can be that way with photography too. We love that little element off to the side, but it becomes distracting to the rest of the image. Crop it out. It helps to stop and listen to the scene, breath and watch, then start looking through the viewfinder without the tripod if you’re using one. Find the view and composition where that whisper you heard turns into a yelp of joy.

Say you’re at an overlook at the Grand Canyon. Of course, you want an image of the canyon with all the layers and textures of the earth. You frame up an image that encompasses as much as you can to show the grandeur. While you’re at it, you try to include a little promontory closer to you, but then something just doesn’t look right. At this point try one of two things. Crop the promontory out of the frame, then reposition yourself, investigate the promontory and create another image. Or ditch the first composition, move yourself and reframe an image that features both the promontory and the grandeur. That little promontory is trying to tell you something about the story of the place. Listen to it. I think you’ll be happy that you did.

We can know the rules or guidelines front to back and create technically correct images that never spark life in our audience. To take that extra step to listen to the needs of the scene and find the telling of the story of the time and place and only telling one story at a time, eliminating all of the extraneous side stories, you will be well on your way to creating an image that calls to your audience to stop and listen to the story you’re retelling.

Ideas of Composition: Part 2

When last we met, you learned about 3 basic tools to include in your composition toolbox: Rule of Thirds, Symmetry and Balance, and Leading Lines. If you need a refresher, check out the article here.

Today we will be discussing how to use Curves, Rhythm and Pattern, and Framing to add impact to your images. These ideas often will make the viewer stop a little longer to study your image by showing motion and design elements that interest and intrigue. And isn't that what we want? To have our audience entranced by our images so that they will stay and interact with them for as long as possible?

Just like all composition ideas, these can be used in photos individually or in combination with others. Sometimes using two or more ideas together can create a higher interest or viewer impact. When you find your focal point or subject, play with the composition - look for leading lines that lead the eye to it especially if you place the subject using the rule of thirds. And how special will it look if those leading lines are also curving lines? So let's take a look at Curves, Rhythm and Pattern, and Framing.

CURVES

Similar to leading lines, using curves in your images help the viewer navigate the different elements of your images and leads them further into your photo. unlike leading lines,  curves add a sense of the dynamic - they suggest motion. Where a straight line appears static, a curve appears to glide through the scene in with grace and beauty. They can be the subject or lead the viewer to the subject or center of interest. Also similar to leading lines, curves can be apparent such at the curve in the above image that leads the viewer towards the brightly lit towers. Or they can be implied by the placement of objects within the frame.

Curves can also be the subject of your image. A simple arch of a tree branch or a series of arches leading you down a hallway. A bend of the river can lead you to the distant horizon or can invite you to sit on the bank to watch the water drift by. A Ferris Wheel or Merry-Go-Round captured with a slow shutter speed at night becomes curves and circles that embody the joys of childhood laughter. Ok, I'm waxing poetic here so let's move on.

When looking for curves to add to your images think of all the types of curves and you will begin to see them in your surroundings and compositions. One of the first you may think of is the C-curve which looks exactly like the letter C. Now rotate it 90 degrees either up or down. Now what do you have? An arch or a bowl. Can you think of scenes in your everyday life where you might find any of these? S-curves can be the most exciting as they lead you in and out of different scenic elements. Rivers bending through the landscape are great at showing us S-curves. And we can't forget about the simple circle or oval. A bit more static than an open curve, the circle or oval can help sort and order elements in your image as well as frame your subject. (more on that later)

RHYTHM & PATTERN

Rhythm and Pattern walk hand in hand with texture in photographs. Rhythm refers to how the eye moves through the image - how long it rests on an element before moving onto the next element. The elements are repetitive in nature yet not always the same size, shape, or color. Think of notes in a piece of music. Each note is distinct yet are similar especially when played by the same instrument. When strung together at different counts (length the note is held), they create rhythm and the basis of a piece of music. The same can be said with a photograph except now the eye has become the instrument and the elements of the image become the notes.

Enough visual notes and you begin to see a pattern which in music would become the final arrangement. In photography, they become the image. Many repeated patterns throughout the image and you begin to see texture. Abstract images play heavily with rhythm, pattern, and texture. The image above has a pattern that draws the eye through the scene. Although there isn't a defined subject, there is still interest in the play between gold and green, light and dark, reflected and real. Let your eye wander through the scene being mindful of the pauses and movement as your gaze takes you from break to break.

FRAMING

When we "frame up" an image, we tend to talk about laying out the elements of our scene within the borders of the image. We have a natural frame of what the camera will record on the sensor and write onto your SD card. But add a frame within that frame and you will find a way to direct your viewer to see almost exactly what you saw while in that moment. The frame itself can be the subject, but an even stronger use is to frame your subject. Making the viewer aware of the vast importance of your subject. When you frame an image and hang it on your wall, you are telling the world the importance of that photograph in your life - whether it's a photo of your children, a beloved pet, or a pretty scene from your last vacation - these photos that we put on display have the emphasis of being framed and are therefore important. The same can be said when you add a frame within your images - you are telling the viewer to "Look here. This is important."

A  frame can be quite literal such as a window or doorway. Or implied such as certain elements surrounding the subject. An arch of a tree branch embracing one side of your image can be a frame that directs the viewer's eye to reflect on the moss-covered rocks beyond. Billowing laundry hanging on a line can frame the laundress hanging a batch of freshly laundered linens. Look around you and see how much of the world you can see through windows and doors. Look through crowds of people and flowers to see beyond them, to something enticing, to something more.

You know have explored six composition rules. Your homework once again is to go out and play with each of these and combine them into something more. Don't worry about the test at the end of the day, as long as you go out and play, you'll pass.

Ideas of Composition: Part 1

We can talk about rules and guidelines, but when it comes to composition I like to talk about ideas. Thoughts on how to interpret a scene to help tell your story about the place. For landscape photographers, composition helps you to create a sense of order out of a chaotic world. Composition is the avenue the viewer uses to access the story you want to tell by identifying the elements of the story - the subject, the scene, and characters - in an easily accessible sequence within the frame of your camera. Ultimately we want viewers to stop and interact with our images, to feel at ease, to want to know more, to find a sense of understanding. The importance of composition can become overwhelming and is one of the concepts many photo students struggle with, but once you are well-acquainted with the ideas, they easier they are to see, work with, and master.

In this 3-part series, I will chat about 9 different ideas of composition. Each of these can stand alone in the image but are often combined. It is up to you as the photographer to figure out how best to use these ideas to convey your story. But play with each, learn how they work, how they interact, and how they look in your viewfinder. Give yourself assignments to look for and compose images using each of these ideas. Today we'll look at Subject Placement, Symmetry & Balance, and Leading Lines.

SUBJECT PLACEMENT or Rule of Thirds:

The Rules of Thirds is the most basic tool of composition. It's the tool that I tell my students to start out with when they see a subject because it breaks you of placing a subject smack dab in the middle of the image and it is a pleasing way for a viewer to read an image. It also adds a sense of motion or vitality even in a stagnant subject. You place the subject in the frame that allows the mind to give your subject room to move.

Think of your viewfinder. Now imagine a tic-tac-toe grid overlaid on it (some cameras actually have a function where you can display this).  When you line up your image, place the subject at or near one of the intersecting corners or if you have lines (horizon line or trees), place your dominant line along one of the grid-lines.

In the image above, the woman's glasses/eyes are in one of the grid intersections. Since I am photographing a person, her eyes are the primary point of interest even though you don't really see them here. That is a side note - when photographing humans or animals, their eyes are the most important element of the image - and one I will discuss in another blog. But back to the image above. Her eyes are located near a junction. Now look at her ear and shoulder - they are close to the left vertical grid-line. Her elbow and forearm are along the bottom horizontal line. Even though she is sitting, relaxing in an alpine meadow, she has room to move throughout the image. She looks as if she can get up and move about. The Rule of Thirds helps your mind give her this allowance.

So, when you arrive at a scene and are having trouble figuring out your composition, try the Rule of Thirds. It's a great starting point for both the scene and your mind. Once your brain is in the composition mode, other composition elements will begin to percolate. Maybe the Rule of Thirds is nice, but it just doesn't give you the feel you're experiencing. How about breaking the rule and trying Symmetry & Balance?

SYMMETRY and BALANCE

OK. Now that we have Rule of Thirds tucked away, let's throw it out the window. Not permanently, but Symmetry & Balance doesn't rely on the rule. They do work nicely together though. We all know that symmetry means that something looks the same either top to bottom or side to side. A mirror image so to speak. In fact reflections are great representations of symmetry. You could fold an image down the middle and it will look the same on either side of the fold. Reflections of mountains in lakes are a perfect example of symmetry.

Balance is where one side of the image is not a mirror reflection of the other side but the elements of one side are visually weighted the same as the other side. Think of your laptop - you can fold your laptop in half but one side is not a mirror reflection of the other side. One side is a screen the other side a keyboard, but visually they are the same size. If you are photographing a group of trees and there is one very large tree, try putting the tree in the middle of the frame. Then try putting it nearer one of the edges with a grouping of smaller trees on the other side of the frame. You can do this with any grouping of objects - one of my favorite images showing balance is looking down on a formal Victorian place setting with the plates, cups, and silver lined up. Those Victorians knew all about balance.

In the owl image, the image is mostly symmetrical. You could fold it vertically down the middle and the right side of the image would reflect the left side of the image. It is considered symmetrical in that regard. (Also notice the eyes are located along the upper horizontal line of our Rule of Thirds.) Now technically the left eye is slightly larger than the right but the right is in shadow which adds a visual weight. They look like they're the same size even though they really aren't.

LEADING LINES

Leading Lines is a favorite composition idea for almost every photographer I've talked to. Give someone a path into your image and they will gladly follow it. Leading lines is just that - a distinct line that leads your viewer into the image and takes them on a journey to the subject and story. Think of a path in the forest and how the curious will wonder where the path goes and what adventures it might hold. I can be as obvious as a roadway to the mountains, or implied by the gaze of a child looking in wonder at a bug on a flower. Our thought, as a viewer, is to follow.

You can find leading lines everywhere: roads, trails, fences, people standing in line, a pointing finger, rows of tulips. The list goes on as does the line in your image. Look around you, are there any lines your eye follows? That, my friend is a leading line. Test it out - how many leading lines can you find in the next couple of minutes?

While walking in the madrone forest of Miller Peninsula State Park property, I was fascinated by how the trees towered over my head. I wanted an image that would help the viewer feel the massive trees as they twisted into the sky.  Each trunk, the darkest at the bottom being the most prominent, all lead your eye to the same place - the treetops, their crown shyness, and the sky beyond.

Practice using these three ideas in the coming days, then return to find a few more composition ideas to play with.

Looking at the World a little Differently

Sunset reflected, Cape Meares Lighthouse, Tillamook, OR

Have you ever looked through images of a place you're planning a photo trip to and notice that so many of them look the same? Do you begin to wonder if you'll be able to add to the images already created? How can you create an image that both defines the place you're heading to and your vision?

The idea here is to explore your vision and creativity.

I do advocate that you look at images from other photographers (both professional and amateur) who visited an area. This gives you an idea of what has been explored before.

When you arrive, don't be afraid to follow in their footsteps. There is a reason art students often copy works of the masters - it helps them explore their own style.

While you're photographing the scene, keep an open mind and an open eye. Watch how the light is moving across the scene, look for a different vantage point, get closer (zoom in with both your lens and your feet if possible). You might find an image worthy of your vision.

The story behind the image above is one of timing and watching the light. We arrived at the Cape Meares lighthouse near Tillamook, OR as the sun was rapidly setting between clouds and the horizon. I noticed that I might be losing the light I wanted on the lighthouse so sped up a bit to try and catch the light without losing my friends. Then, looking up the hill behind the structure, I came up with an idea - catch the last light THRU the lens housing! I ran up the hill and composed an image but the light wasn't really as I had hoped. But I did notice the reflection in the window panes, re-positioned and recomposed for the above image. A slightly different view of a popular lighthouse.

Now it's your turn to look for an image that speaks to your artist's eye.

A Second Look

I shoot a lot while hiking. While I enjoy looking for that scene I might have in my mind, setting up the shot and waiting for the light sometimes I just need to shoot and run. Something about a scene grab my attention and I "grab and go."

This type of photography doesn't always lend itself to a carefully shot image. Or to working a scene - taking images from different angles, shutter speeds and apertures for the best composition.

Nor am I able to set up the tripod and take multiple exposures to blend together later in HDR software.

I also will apply this "grab and go" style to editing my images. If it grabs me as I sift through the images, it gets to stay. If not, then into the trash bin it goes.

But every now & then an image deserves a second look. The two images here have different stories, but each was given a second chance much to my appreciation.

1. On Gold Creek Pond, Mt Baker-Snoqualmie National Forest

While hiking through what was left of an early season snow around Gold Creek Pond, located near Snoqualmie Pass in Washington, I meandered down by the lake shore. It wasn't a particularly spectacular day for landscapes as the clouds were thick in the trees just above the trees. I was primarily shooting intimate nature portraits in the even light. There were a lot of opportunities for colorful leaves with a dusting of snow. I almost didn't take this picture as the light was flat - no features in the low clouds beyond. But the shape made by the near perfect reflection was attractive. Later as I processed the image I let the sky go white to highlight the shape of the reflection in the water.

2. Grassy Log in Nada Lake, Okanogan-Wenatchee National Forest

On my trip to the Enchantments this past October, my friends & I stayed at Nada Lake on our way in. In the morning light fell on this log out in the lake but the hill behind was still in shadow. It was such an interesting log with grass and shrubbery growing on it. I knew there was a picture in there somewhere so I took a few shots as did my companions. But as I looked at it on my computer I wasn't as thrilled as I had been when I first saw the log in the morning light. But I hesitated when I highlighted the image to throw away. I decided to crop it and darken the background enough to lose the shadowy detail that had been captured.

Every now and then, an image or a scene is worth taking a second, third or even fourth look. You might find magic in there.